Ep 8: Make your Contractor Your Best Referral Partner: How-To Tips for Contractor-Friendly Interior Design Files

Want your contractor to rave about you (and send you referrals)?

Turns out, the secret isn’t great design—it’s great design files! 

You know: floor plans, elevations, and material lists. They aren’t just nice to have. They are essential to a smooth project!

In the latest episode of Stuff Interior Designers Need to Know, Rebecca chats with general contractors Chris and Lisa of Raincap Construction (Seattle, WA) to get the inside scoop on what makes design documentation truly contractor-friendly.

We cover:

• The mistakes designers regularly make in their design files
• What contractors wish we knew (but don’t always say)
•  How better documentation = smoother installs, fewer headaches, + happier clients

Thank you to Chris and Lisa for sharing their time and real-world examples of how well-prepared design files prevent miscommunications, keep costs in check, and help projects run on time (who doesn’t love a drama-free install?!). 

Whether you're a designer looking to refine your process or a contractor wishing designers would—this episode is packed with insights to help both sides collaborate more effectively and deliver top-notch results.

Give it a listen and turn your contractors into your biggest allies! 🎧💡

#InteriorDesignBusiness #ContractorCollaboration #DesignDocs #DesignSuccess #StreamlineYourProjects

--

👷‍♂️💛👷🏻‍♀️ Connect with Chris, Lisa, and the team at Raincap Construction  

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👉 Happy Starts at Home

Transcript

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 0:00

What do you really want people to take away from this, conversation?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 0:03

Have as much of your detail and your design done prior to having your contractor bid or start the job. Building is a messy job the more that you can have everything done in advance, before we even start the process, the better.

Speaker: 0:21

Welcome to Stuff Interior Designers Need to Know, the podcast where the title says it all. If you're a residential interior designer this is the place to find out the stuff you need to know to succeed in business in the short and long term and create a business that makes you seriously happy. Today I'm chatting with Chris and Lisa of Rain Cap Construction in Seattle, Washington, about what they wish interior designers knew about what to put in their design files. From floor plan drawings to elevation details, this is the stuff you need to know if you want your contractor to become not only a great trade partner, but also one of your biggest fans and best referral partners. A little context and a confession before we dive in. I worked closely with Rain Cap Construction for nearly 20 years. While they weren't the only contractor who implemented our remodel designs at Seriously Happy Homes, they were, without a doubt, one of our best and favorite contractors. In fact, if I hadn't been married to a contractor, they would have been the ones I would have hired for my own remodels for four reasons. First, before starting rain cap construction, Chris was an electrical engineer, making him unsurprisingly impeccable with details. His projects are well built and his job sites are kept clean and tidy. For anyone who's worked with a messy contractor, you know how easy it is for expensive fixtures to get misplaced or areas not under construction to get damaged, and those things never happen on a rain cap job site. Second, before starting RainCap Construction, he also spent a number of years flipping investment houses. That makes him and his team really good at value engineering, meaning that he helped our mutual clients spend their money effectively and not spend any money they didn't have to. Third reason I loved him is that he limits his remodeling territory to North Seattle. And while that meant I couldn't use him on projects elsewhere, it made him a reliable expert on craftsman remodeling, which is the main thing that we did in North Seattle. Thanks to having remodeled so many North Seattle homes, it was like he had x ray vision and could anticipate costs and hidden problems so early that I rarely had to make design revisions when he was involved on a project from the start. I say all of this because the relationship a designer has with their contractor is the ingredient that makes it possible. Or not possible for our designs to not only get built, but be built on time and on budget leading to happy clients and awesome referrals and great after photos. But that relationship is a two-way street. And what we provide to the contractors has everything to do with how well they can deliver for us. So without any further ado, let's dive into this conversation and learn just exactly what a general contractor needs from their designer in order to become their biggest fan and best referral partner.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 3:37

Hi, Chris and Lisa. I'm so excited to have you on the show today.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 3:41

Thank you for having us. Hi, Rebecca.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 3:43

We have known each other for going on two decades. You were one of the primary contractors that we partnered with a seriously happy home. So we go way back. The purpose of our conversation today is to talk about the files that I used to hand off to you guys. What was good in those files and what you really wish other interior designers would do so that they're providing the information you need to give clients the results we want them to have. I want to talk big picture about the format of our files. Our files had a cover sheet, floor plans, which would include like lighting plans and stuff. Elevations. Pictures of all of the materials that were going to be included, and then a materials list. What is it that you guys liked so much about our files and how were they different from what you see from a lot of other interior designers?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 4:40

I'm actually holding up. The last seriously happy homes project that we work on. This 1 came out of your office in August of 2020. For a client of ours in Seattle. we finished the basement. Now we're doing the main and the upper floor. I spent a good portion of yesterday going through your documentation and, writing an estimate from it. It starts there where I'm sitting down and trying to figure out what everything's going to cost and pulling numbers out. At this point, I don't have to care too much about the pictures that show what the mirror's going to look like and that sort of thing, but I, do end up spending a lot of time in your specification section where wonderfully you have links that I can click on that will take me straight to the website where I can see the price I can plug that into our material allowances and everything is there for me to write an estimate. I would jump in and say that through the estimating process it is so helpful to have all of the details because the devil really is in the details and so is the cost. when we're working with other designers, sometimes the. Concept is fleshed out, but all of the details haven't been completely decided on by the client or by the designer. And that makes it much more difficult for us to have an accurate price. Remodeling, especially in the Seattle metro area is extremely expensive. we strive hard as a company to have an accurate. Estimate and then meet that accurate estimate when we actually do the work. having all of these details helps Chris create a much more accurate estimate that then when we go through and do the building, we can say, Oh, we're meeting these targets for our costs because we had all the information that we needed when we started.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 6:24

I'm actually would love to ask two questions that are related. So one is about allowances. I think we should talk about allowances and what they look like a lot of times. but first I'd like to ask I know what I mean when I say details, what details come to your mind where you're like, oh cool. Those are all accounted for. How fine grained are we talking?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 6:45

I would say it's all of the specifics about For example how all of the details of the tile is going to work together. That oftentimes on other designs is left fairly ambiguous. It might not even be documented how all of the details of the different tiles are going to work together. You always had fabulous tile designs that were fairly complicated. You showed exactly how the tile was to be laid out, how it was going to transition into, say, another tile, what kind of transition. Are we going to use between one surface and the next? All of those details are super important and that allows our tile installer to have an accurate price on his install because it varies widely depending on the type of tile you're going to choose and the transitions between one surface and the next. That's one example, Chris, maybe you have another. One part I always liked is, just even like, the light switches would be laid out and located on the elevation. And then you'd have a blow up of that light switch saying this switch is going to control these lights and this switch is going to control this fan. Our field guys really, really like being able to just move efficiently on the job site not having to constantly stop and, circle back to our clients to clarify all these little details. And they don't want to guess because they don't want to be wrong.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 8:11

I find that a lot of designers keep a lot of these things in their head thinking, Oh, I'll just show up on site and tell people where to install it that day, which I'm assuming leads to constant miscommunications and delays. Am I right?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 8:27

yeah, and a lot of time spent in meetings. We used to work with one designer who we finally had to quit working with because she would insist on a weekly meeting where she would come out to the job site. She wanted me there as the owner. She wanted our project manager there. And then if, if we had a field staff on site, which we almost always did, that they all had to stop. So there might be two other guys standing around listening. And then you had the owner. And these meetings would drag on for at least three hours. While she sat and kind of figured out all the little trim details and kind of worked out everything on site as a team. I think she thought that her method was good and maybe for some people it was, but that's expensive. When you have all those people standing around, not working. Those meetings can cost a thousand bucks, 2, 000. That's expensive for our client to do that once a week, instead of just having everything fleshed out in her documentation. Before we began or preferably before I wrote my estimate. And that was a cost that we couldn't that weekly we were going to have these three hour meetings And the cost of that quickly ballooned. It really slowed down Our schedule, which is another one of our milestones that we really try to keep track with. After we get our project going we have the schedule, which in residential contracting constantly changes, but we're really trying to meet those timelines. Oftentimes our homeowners, They might be renting a place. They might be living in, in the house while we're remodeling it. There might be some sort of a deadline that they're trying to meet and we're trying to meet that with them. But if we have these constant weekly slowdowns where our staff has to literally put down their hammers, our trade partner has to put down their tools and we're all standing around while the designer thinks through details that you already when you do your process, you've already done all that work. It's done. It's in our piece of paper. And our guys are so happy because they can literally just keep moving along. It's a completely different experience.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 10:41

My brain is going a million different places right now. I still want to circle back to allowances in a second. But first, I'm curious I'm sure it was different with different designers, but these designers who are Saving these details for onsite meetings. Are they at least documenting them well, or is it all staying verbal?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 11:03

That is the problem is that oftentimes they stay verbal. A million details verbally communicated, doesn't get written down, isn't on plans, That's our trickiest situation. Because we have got into problems where we get to the end of the project and the homeowner or the designer says, wait a second there was supposed to be an outlet for the microwave here and there isn't one. What happened? Yeah. And I, and I told Bob that, you know. During that one meeting. Bob can't remember anybody telling him that. In the three hour meeting where he glazed over, right? After the second hour. Right. That's right. That's, that is such a big problem. Verbal instruction is such a big problem because it's open to interpretation. Our guys get nervous because. They're not sure if they remember it properly. And when there are a lot of meetings, like Lisa said, people start to lose the ability to hang in there after a while, especially in this industry. Most people are ADHD like myself.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 12:02

you're working with your hands for a reason.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 12:04

might miss a couple of things. Yeah,

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 12:07

So you, you gave the example of how something might have been asked for and then missed. I also have had clients come to me and say, My project went so over budget

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 12:18

Call

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 12:20

was telling me how much more that was going to cost. And by the time the project was over, I'm like, where did all this money go? And if you don't have a record of them saying, yes, I agree to this 2, 000 new idea. And to this upgrade on this light fixture, that's going to add another 1, 500 that adds up really quickly. And then at the end, you've got all that finger pointing who's responsible? for these cost overruns and time overruns.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 12:47

To your point, once the project's rolling, it really is like, rolling rock or as people say, the plane going down the runway, and you don't want to build it as the plane is going down the runway. To try to create an estimate for all of the details that come along while we're actually trying to build it. It's not practical After we have that meeting where everyone's standing around for their three hours, the guys are just ready with their hammers to get going. So it doesn't provide us the time to create a thoughtful estimate of how much this is going to cost to do those details that the designer just told us about, because she is expecting our staff to implement those changes for her right as she's talking or that design idea, like, okay, I just told you, now you're going to go ahead and do it. There's no time in there for us to say, that's going to be an extra 5, 000, 15, 000, 50, 000 change. She's just thinking okay, you're going to implement my vision now. And it is going to be what it's going to be.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 13:48

Yeah. So that takes us back to the estimating process. And it's funny, we're 20 minutes into this conversation and we're still at the beginning where we've got to get our pricing right. I'm curious about two things. One is allowances. When a contractor doesn't start with a design, then frequently they will put allowances into an estimate. Designers frequently complain that those allowances are unreasonably small. Would you like to speak to that?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 14:19

Well yeah yeah, that's true. You know, with your documentation you know, it's, it's all spelled out It takes a little bit more time to go through because I need to pull all that stuff out of it, but it's there and then we have it and it's a tight estimate. If it's not there, like it usually is not, or a I'm writing a price off schematic design. Which is kind of normal construction process. During schematic design everybody's still flying at 30, 000 feet and you know, we know where the walls are. We don't know what the tiles going to look like. We just know that there is tile on that wall. So, yeah, I will, I'll lean back on my experience and try to gauge with the client what sort of level of finishes they're looking for, we have a questionnaire that we issued to our clients before the first meeting with them, where we asked them to kind of spell some of that out a little bit with their priorities are and then I'll, I'll come up with something and you know, hopefully I do a good job. I've been getting killed on plumbing fixtures lately. My goodness, where it used to just be like a, you know, A shower valve and a shower head, like 400 or something. And now I'm seeing basement bathrooms with 1, 700 shower sets. I'm not really doing my customer a service when I go in for an initial estimate and then the price ends up going up so much as we go through the pre construction process, but it is kind of hard to know. And it's hard to keep up with what's in the industry. I'm sure I've left some designers frustrated sometimes where they've come back later and said, my God, your contractor put in 400 dollars for the shower valve shower set. And that's going to get us something at Home Depot, but that's not going to do it in today's market. So I do the best I can to gauge the situation and put in numbers that hopefully will work. I would also say that if a designer is wanting to have some competitive bidding between their contractors You want to be able to compare apples to apples, so if you do not have all of the details of the fixture and as a contractor, we know we're in a competitive bidding situation. It isn't to our benefit to say, I'm going to put in 2000 fixtures for your bathroom when. you know, my competitor might be putting in 400 and then if you as a homeowner or a designer are looking at the bottom line of, say, three different bids that you have and they vary widely, you aren't able to compare apples to apples because they're having to basically guess at the fixtures and the price point, which varies by Hugely because every client and designer has a different idea and we deal with all different types. Some people might be doing something very economical and some people might be doing something that is on the other spectrum of that. If you're trying to go through a competitive bidding process as a designer or a homeowner, to not have that detail you're not doing yourself a service because you're, won't be able to accurately compare those estimates against one another.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 17:26

That's exactly right, and that's what I wanted to get to with this allowance thing. It's a guess based on so many assumptions about what quality level the client wants, and just a bunch of things that the client may not have even thought about by the time they're talking with you. So, if we get the opportunity as designers to pre design and get a proper estimate, The more detail we provide, the more everybody's going to be happy at the end. Even though this episode is about what we designers can do better with our files, we have to remember that not every contractor is as detailed as the two of you guys. And estimates may not be clear when you're trying to compare apples to apples. So the Only way to feel confident that you're comparing like to like is to provide a detailed design that says this is what you're pricing. All the details are worked out. There's no questions. So here you go.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 18:23

and

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 18:25

So we're at the estimating phase. You're looking at my materials list. When designers don't include links, are they at least giving you pricing or are they just kind of letting you guess? Okay,

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 18:35

and yours is so nice cause you even put the price in there too. So I can, I can just plug in the number. I don't even have to hit the link. What we normally will get if they're pretty clear, it'll be a set of drawings. And then it's oftentimes an Excel spreadsheet that has, you know, here's your kitchen faucet. Usually it's just a name, you know, it's a X branded, whatever model sometimes when it's early phase when you're working off schematics or design development type documents they might say, we haven't selected the tile yet, but we want you to put in 25 a square foot for the. For the wall tile in the shower, 15 a square foot for the floor tile backsplash, you know, X so sometimes people will actually just tell us. What dollar allowances to use prior to doing a full specification, which is kind of a nice way to go.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 19:27

so there are some alternatives that will still let you do your estimating job well.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 19:32

that's right. Because the reality is typically today, our customers are choosing their contractor at the early part of the design process so that the contractor can be involved throughout the design and make sure that you have A scope and a budget that are harmonious. And then as well, the contractor can be there through pre construction where that. Where the architect or owner can circle back and say Boy, we'd like to move that window. How big of a deal is that going to be? Or is it possible to vault the ceiling in this area? And if so, what would that cost? So it's a big advantage of having the contractor there throughout the process. But it also means that they're going to have to potentially do competitive bidding with drawings that are not fully cooked at

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 20:17

Yeah, and it is a little bit of a chicken and an egg kind of an industry. It's hard to know which thing to do first. Okay, so fast forward now, you've estimated the project, you've got the project, it's time to actually start the project. Floor plans. What do you love about what we provide? What do you wish designers would provide?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 20:38

Just lots and lots of details. The devil's in the details. And most designers don't really fully know what that means.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 20:45

One of the things you taught me in early days was that you needed an existing floor plan as well as the new floor plan because you need the existing floor plan in order to pull permits

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 20:57

correct. Yeah. And it's really helpful when writing our estimate as well.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 21:01

So you can see where the changes are, big picture.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 21:04

that's right. Mm hmm. Another silly thing but it kind of gets us sometimes is Making sure the details are legible and large enough on your plans., it sounds like such a basic thing, but in the field the guys are working and if you have it written in like eight point font or six point font on a piece of paper, you know, they're literally in the field, with the plans up to their eyes, just trying to think what, does this say? And we've actually had our field staff sometimes call the office and say, Hey, can you look on the computer below this up and tell me what does this actually say? And then we'll write it in, you know, below the, microscopic type font that's on the plans

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 21:50

So legible is good.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 21:52

Yeah, you know, one or two of our field guys are a little long in the tooth and they probably need readers, but they're not doing construction with their readers on. So they can't read the drawings. So yeah, that happens.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 22:03

Speaking of sizes architectural documents are frequently two feet by three feet, those giant rolls of paper that are on site. The documents that we tended to provide we made them so they could be printed on eight and a half by 11 paper. That was the intention. I never asked you guys, would you have preferred that they were larger? What would you like from designers?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 22:23

I think that our field staff prefers it in a larger format. One of our project managers actually prints everything on 11 by 17 paper for the field staff regardless of what size anyone made it. And he just blows it up. So for us. It's larger is better. It's just easier to see all of the type fonts, the little details, things like that.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 22:49

And harder to lose on a big job site.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 22:51

Correct. And full size printing is expensive too. We've had projects, just little residential construction remodeling where we can spend 300 on printing full size drawing packages. Or more. It's really expensive and usually we need a permit set and then there's construction documents and we need, You know, one or two or three copies of the set. So the project manager has one and the field guys have one. And then we've got an extra one for when somebody takes off with the drawings in their truck.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 23:20

So floor plans, we need our existing floor plan. We need our new floor plan. Let's get to the juicy stuff, the elevations. What do you want to see on there and what's often missing?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 23:32

Well, dimensions you'd think that'd be pretty obvious, but a lot of times we, we don't have any dimensions. The designer will be very proud of the picture that they show and it looks really nice, but we can't build it if we don't know exactly where the soap niche is going to be, and how high to put the towel bar, and where should we set the thermostat, and you know, your drawings spell out all of that. What, the height of every shelf, where to put that art tile inlay it's all there. Again, our guys don't want to, they don't want to guess. They don't want to make mistakes and they don't like to have to stop to ask questions. And most of them don't like meetings either. They just want to build. And it's in everybody's best interest for them to just be able to build efficiently and not have to stop and ask questions. To have this information available at the rough in phase where we're doing our blocking the blocking that we try to provide behind all of these things so that eventually you're You know, toilet paper holder isn't ripped off the wall by your kid. You know, we try to help blocking behind all of that. If the plumber is standing there and saying, lady, how high do you want your shower handle and how high do you want your showerhead? The homeowner is just like, I, I don't know, you know, like what do you do? The plumber has to say. Well, under normal circumstances, this is what we do. It happens so often that those heights aren't shown. The heights for light switches, for example how far apart sconces are going to be things like that. We need that information. When our plumbers doing their rough in, When we start the project, basically.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 25:05

mean, you know, you're preaching to the choir right here and designers, this is also to your benefit because when things are left to the electrician's decision about where the thermostat should go, I guarantee you it's going to go right where you planned to place a piece of art. Like, it's just Murphy's law. I don't know what plumbers and electricians think is standard, but it's not what I think is standard you're just leaving everything to chance when you don't get detailed. And that's when you end up with things like. Light switches that are half in the tile backsplash, half out of the tile backsplash. And those are the kinds of details that people deserve to get right because they invested in a designer in the first place.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 25:50

I uh, project manages one of the designs that you created it was a kitchen remodel and an upstairs bathroom. And I remember going into the upstairs bathroom after our electrician had been there and the thermostat for the floor heat wasn't in the spot that you had spec'd it. I remember asking the electrician, like, why, why did you do this? So it's written in the plans to be not as you did it. And he said, Oh, well I just thought it worked out better the other way. And I was just like, are you kidding me? I was like, no, the client wants it as Rebecca laid it out. Please fix it. It was just such a head scratcher, right? But seriously if you leave it up to the electrician, you just don't know what you're gonna get. Whatever this person thinks is, is the best thing is they're just gonna do it that way and it might be the strangest thing you've ever seen.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 26:45

And I'm so glad you said that because what we just said there was, we, we did document it. We did decide it. And then a rogue the sub decided, I liked it better over here. If it's not documented, then you get that finger pointing who's now responsible for the time and money to make it right. And in this case, you were able to say to your sub dude, that's on you. Go fix it

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 27:13

And we were able to fix it in the rough in phase before we got

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 27:17

when it's cheap.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 27:19

right? right? I mean, it's horrible to have discovered these problems after the entire bathroom's done. Your client walks in to like change the floor heat and they're like, what the heck? Why is the floor heat thermostat in this location? And then you have to fix it when your beautiful bathroom has been completely finished and all of a sudden you're opening sheetrock, removing tile, changing things, then it's so easy in the rough in phase and your documentation allowed me to ask my, my electrician, why in the world is it this way? And I could easily see that as I went through and checked after rough in that something wasn't in the right location.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 28:01

I love it. Chris, did you want to add something?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 28:04

Yeah, the other part of that I was going to say is that when we're having to stop a lot and ask our clients for clarification or decisions is they start to suffer from decision fatigue and that builds as the project goes along. They're already tired because they're living in half their basement and everything's dirty and they're writing checks constantly. If they also are having to make decisions throughout the project that that really adds to their fatigue. Ideally we see the decisions coming. You know, by next Wednesday, we need to get your blessing on the lighting layout, or, where we're going to put the sconce, but a lot of times we don't see those coming. So it's like, stop, stop what you're doing. We got to ask the client real quick. Thankfully now in the post COVID world, a lot of times our clients are home. So it's, it is easier now, but eventually our clients start to kind of just wear out on making what can feel like really critical decisions that they're not necessarily feeling like they're qualified to make especially during utility rough in where we're. Getting all of that stuff into the wall before we put up sheet rock, and it's your last chance to get anything in the right place easily. So I always tell our clients in advance of project starts like this is utility rough and tends to be the time of the project where you're really are going to be pretty worn out, but less so in your projects, because they just don't have to. They don't have to make all those decisions because generally everything's already spelled out in the drawings. So I always tell our clients in advance of project starts like this is utility rough and tends to be the time of the project where you're really are going to be pretty worn out, but less so in your projects, because generally everything's already spelled out in the drawings.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 29:33

That was a big part of why we made our files as detailed as we did, because we don't want the client trying to figure out what cabinet hardware they want right when they're exhausted by the process. Designers if you want your clients to make bolder decisions that cost a little bit more money, The time not to do that is when they're bleeding money in the middle of the project. You want to do that up front when they're still excited about things. If you wait, they're going to be like, what's cheap? What's available? I don't care. Even if later they're going to look back and be like, I wish I'd given that a little bit more time and thought,

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 30:11

check fatigue is a real thing. As we get to the end of our projects and someone has written us 450, 000 of checks and then we're at the last 10%, it's time to install those beautiful finishes. And they're like, Oh my God, are you kidding me? You want me to install a, you know, 5, 000 light fixture? No way. I have just written 450, 000 dollars worth of checks and I am done. And we see that literally almost on every project we work on because it is really expensive and check fatigue, it happens to almost everybody.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 30:51

Really good points. Okay. So we've got our floor plans. We've got our elevations. Anything else you want to say about elevations?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 31:00

I think that they're one of the most important and left out pieces of most designers documentation. And where you think it might be overkill as a designer, it's not overkill for example bathrooms are very complicated. A lot of clients don't realize how complicated a bathroom is. Owners come to us without a designer and say, well, I'm just installing a bathroom. I just want a bathroom. How hard could that be? And we actually tell them, this is actually the most difficult project because there are so many details in it. The more information that you can provide as far as measurements go, as far as your tile layout, like how is that going to look like, what are those transition elements between different pieces, you know, are you going to have bullnose, are you going to use jolly schluder, I mean, what are your transitions, how is one piece going to work with the next are you going to have an elaborate glass shower door that has a lot of different components? That all needs to be figured out before we order the shower door because once it has been ordered and manufactured, you basically cannot change it. So all of those elevations. Help our builders build the right thing and have our clients get what they expected.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 32:19

Yes, exactly. Now one of the things I tried to do, and I'm curious if it mattered to you guys, I tried to avoid on the elevations, paragraphs of text. I'm assuming that that is important because I have found contractors don't like to read

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 32:37

That goes back to the ADHD thing a little bit. Exactly like you're saying nobody on site is wanting to read a paragraph. They're wanting to quickly reference the plans and then go back to building. Especially if your design changes as you are going along. Calling out note to contractor in bold type and then you have a note. Maybe you released an updated set of drawings and you've called out components that are different somehow highlight those with a bubble or whatever you're going to choose so that the builder can see. Oh, this is a design change from what we had previously. Let's pay attention to these important elements.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 33:17

Make it as scannable as possible. Okay, now the next thing I always included, I included more for the homeowners. I don't know if you actually liked having it, which is the 3D renderings, and then all of the pictures. Yes, exactly. He's pointing at one right now on the screen. So all the renderings of the room were separate from the pictures of the objects and materials. How did you guys feel about having those 3D renderings as the contractor?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 33:43

I don't know that the guys pay too much attention to those. They get all the information that they need to build off the floor plans, the elevations, and the specs. As you said, the renderings are really there for the homeowner to be able to see what it's actually going to look like it's hard to get the vibe of the space from the floor plan and the elevations. It's the recipe. It tells you how to make the cake, but it doesn't really let you know what it's going to taste like. That's what the renderings do. They can actually really see it.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 34:13

If we were to skip something from the contractor's perspective, never skip the floor plans, never skip the elevations, the renderings could be seen as optional, but the renderings will never be a substitute. For floor plans and elevations. Is that correct?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 34:32

That's correct. Yeah,

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 34:33

Now, what about those material images? We tried to have pictures of the tile, pictures of the faucets, pictures of the cabinets. Was that important for you guys?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 34:43

Yes, that's very important because as we are working with our trade partners or subcontractors or material providers we are able to show them exactly what is going to be installed. And so they're able to give us more accurate estimates before we start the project. And they're able to get a sense of where we're going sometimes. Like for example, this project that Chris is working on that you developed back in 2020, the materials may not be available any longer, but we can say, Oh, okay, well, this is what we're going after, right? We're going to have black hex tile in this size, so we can find a substitute or work with the homeowner to find a substitute. This type of flooring might not exactly be available anymore, but no problem. You know, we're going to be able to find something that looks very similar to that and make a substitution.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 35:40

I hadn't even thought about that as a benefit, because you're right. Frequently, projects end up being You know, being priced out at more than a client expected. They need to save up for a little bit longer. Things will absolutely go out of stock. And so those pictures aren't just there for reference. The reason they're there is so that if somebody gets a box of tile, it should look like the picture. It just verify, but there's that added benefit of if things have gone out of stock, they're easier to resource and keep the integrity of the design.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 36:11

Absolutely,

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 36:13

well, that leads us to the part that. Well, okay. As a designer, I'm not sure if the elevations or the materials specification list took longer to get right, because that's where all the details are is on the elevations and then on the specification list. The specification list for us, we call it the materials list. It's the item we're sourcing, like a faucet, kitchen faucet, and then it will be the description of that faucet, brand, finish, size, quantity, if it's more than one. We always included our link because we never purchased anything for our clients, so we were always happy to share the purchasing information and we always shared the retail cost, which our intent was that that would mean that the client would know what they would spend if they bought it themselves or the contractor would know that they can still get their discount and that the client should expect that to be MSRP. So that was our way of going about it. I know that specification lists can look very, very different across designers. us your thoughts on specification lists.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 37:20

Well, me, as a project manager on your projects, I really appreciated having the list while we were actually building because I wanted to make sure that We had on hand all of the materials before we got to that scope of work. So, I would use your list to checkmark, like, okay, yes, we do have the faucet, we do have the drain, we do have the, kitchen knobs It was super handy to have this list available and to make sure that we had all the products that we needed as we were getting to that phase of the scope.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 37:54

And how does it compare to what you get from other designers? Is this a fairly consistent thing that you're given or are you frequently missing important information? I

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 38:04

It's, it's never as clear and detailed as this. I also just like that it's attached to the drawing set so that you always know that you're working on the correct one.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 38:12

I want to call that out for a second. Our files were one. Very long pdf. We very purposefully found a way to make sure that every single piece of information would be in one document to avoid confusion about, which specification list went with which document. Which floor plans. That's how you lead to those miscommunications that we're trying to avoid.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 38:36

Yeah, yeah, where you're working off the wrong list this makes it really clear. And then within that list, you have it broken down by room. Which is really nice, and you know, when I'm doing, when I'm writing my estimates it's wonderful because, as Lisa was saying, during construction where she can go through and check everything off, I do the same thing on my estimates. I scribble all over this, and some of it is rugs and sofas, and I don't have to worry about that, but you really did a good job capturing everything. Even capturing out the stuff that is contractor cost. We're gonna have a custom cabinet in this corner over here, and that's gonna come out of the contractor's custom shop, and you as the designer don't know what that's gonna cost, but you've indicated that on here, and now I know that that's something that I need to go after. So yeah. Having it all in one place, on one document, It's so nice. I would follow that up by saying for us at rain cap. We work on multiple projects at the same time that means that each project might have a different designer or architect on it. when everybody does something a little bit differently As the project manager or the builder on site, you have to think to yourself, now, where does this designer put their specs? Where, where are those? Is that in Google Sheets or did they email it to me? Ideally like make this as foolproof for your builder as possible. You don't want your builder to be like, Oh, my gosh, where do I find that again? Where was that thing? Oh, I can't. I can't remember. Never mind. When you're working on multiple projects at the same time, and everybody does something a little bit differently trying to figure out, like, where do I go to find this? Can sometimes feel like a big hurdle in the building process.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 40:19

Of course.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 40:20

Yeah, when you have full size drawings on the on the job site. Oftentimes that Excel spreadsheet isn't going to end up out there, too. Or if it does, it's going to end up lost in a stack of permits or something else.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 40:32

Yeah. So that brings us to the end of the file, but not to the end of the process. After the build is done, I've been really surprised over the years at how many times clients have referenced back to those files because they had a warranty issue and they needed to figure out, which maker was the maker of something. I have a client that I'm working with right now who doesn't have any documentation for her home from her designer, and it's really put her into a pickle with some things she needs to fix. My question is, have you guys, over 17 years of working together, have you referenced back to these files? Is that something that's also happening within your side or is it pretty much closed when the project's done?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 41:14

From the builder point of view Warranty things happen. That's part of the process. Stuff just isn't built like it used to. They sell these lighting fixtures where they integrate the bulbs into the fixtures with the Idea that they're gonna last a certain amount of lighting hours and it might be like 5, 000 lighting hours, right? Well, unfortunately, is actually not the bulb itself. It's the electrical components that have issues. One of the projects that we worked with you on. Just recently, one of their lights had a manufacturing flaw. It just stopped working. So we did reference your files. We ordered a new one. And then. Wouldn't you know, three months later, the other sconce also stopped working. Yeah, so yes, we did use that for a warranty item. Things go wrong, things have to get fixed, it's super important to have documentation.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 42:11

Absolutely. Anything you want to add to that, Chris?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 42:14

No, I think she covered it.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 42:16

So big picture, what do you really want people to take away from this conversation?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 42:23

Have as much of your detail and your design done prior to having your contractor bid or start the job. Building is a messy job it can be very complicated. We've started building when the design wasn't completely thought through or fleshed out. Those projects are inevitably not as successful from a cost perspective, from a process perspective. The more you can have everything done in advance, before we even start the process, the better.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 42:53

In my experience, it's actually even more true on the smaller projects because good documentation and having chosen everything, ordered everything, having it all on site, can be the difference between a three week bathroom remodel and a three month bathroom remodel. So projects that don't have to take a long time will, if you don't do this work and then the big projects, it's so hard to get your hands around how much that big project is going to cost leaving all of the details loose just makes it thousand times more impossible.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 43:29

That's such a great point. The smaller projects, those are the ones where you have to have everything dialed in in advance. Do you have to have the materials on site? You have to have your plumber scheduled. You have to have all that stuff figured out before it starts because it's going to go quickly. When we're doing a big addition or building a a new house, it's We're going to be in dirt and concrete for, possibly months. In the meantime, someone can be figuring out what the tile is. We don't have to worry about that yet, but if it's a bathroom model we need to know everything before, before we get going so we can get it all scheduled

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 44:03

Yeah. On those bigger projects, the big things are of course, deciding the windows and the doors, because those will have a four to five month lead time. And there's so many aesthetic choices that have to be made for the doors and windows. So to me, I'm like, how could I even make those decisions without having fleshed out to the design, at least some part of the way. I'm curious, given that this is such a newbie mistake, how often are you still seeing when you get to the rough in phase that you don't have valves chosen for the bathroom fixtures?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 44:39

Things have gotten so complicated with showers because it's not just a handle and a shower head anymore. We have problems with the specs not actually working together. I would say this happens about 25 percent of the time. Our plumber gets on site and he says, Hey, this valve, it's like a, a one way valve, or it's not going to support your wand and your, shower head. Plus the other things that you might have going on. You have your plumber standing there and he says, lady, Hey, I'm leaving. I'll come back with my next opening. We don't want our plumber to walk off the job site, right? Because he might not have an opening for a couple of weeks. So, making sure that you have the products that actually all work together. And this happens a lot with shower valves more than any other area. Just because everything's gotten so much more complicated. There's so many more components that work together.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 45:37

Yeah, and that plumber going off site isn't just the plumber that has a ripple effect on all of the other schedules because no other sub can do their work until he's done his and that actually takes us back to the elevations to if you've got these complicated plumbing systems, which is Seems to be the standard now for most remodels. You can't, for example, run a pipe through a shower niche. You've got to think about where are the fixtures going to be placed? Where's the niche going to be framed in? Where are the valves going to be placed? The on And off valves? Because even that can be really personalized because you might not want to reach around into this massive shower to turn on the water. Then you get drenched. But moving it to the entry of the shower is not normal. Your plumber is not going to think to do that. It has to be on elevations.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 46:28

A completely different subject that comes to mind is the designer and the client don't seem to have a clear understanding of what type of support is going to happen during building. We do remodels of old houses and so often when we open the walls, surprise! Things are crazy in the walls they might have been remodeled horribly at one time, or the structure inside the walls isn't to modern building code. The design might have to change based on the existing conditions, we have it happen where The owner is sometimes surprised that onsite support during building isn't a part of their contract. We've done our demo, we're looking at the walls and we need to have a bit of a design change based on what we've actually run into and the designer says, well, you didn't contract with me to do on site building support. Now as the homeowner and the builder, we're standing there going, oh, okay, well, I guess we're going to figure this out ourselves. It affects the project going down the road where we might make changes that affect different things. All of a sudden, there's a cascading series of changes that happen because we had to just figure it out on our own. And that's not our area of expertise, nor the homeowner's area of expertise.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 47:50

Not all contractors are going to be thoughtful. About the change that they're making on your behalf. And even if they are trying to be thoughtful, this isn't their area of expertise. I think it was actually in a project I did with you guys. The sewer stack was exactly where the door to the bathroom was supposed to go. And for people who are listening, you don't know, our designs were always sold as design only. We did not do any ordering. We did not do any on site project management or anything. But when I got that call, I do consider it my professional responsibility to have provided a design that can be executed. Obviously, every situation is a little bit different. But in that particular one, of course, I got in my car, I showed up on site, I reworked the design, and the day was saved. I do see that as our job as designers. And if that's happening a lot for you as a designer, number one, Are you doing enough planning in the first place? And number two, look at your pricing, just price it in so that you aren't leaving your clients hanging. The third part is, I was always really clear on my files is on the cover sheet that if y'all need to make changes, I'm not the kind of designer who gets mad, like you don't need my permission. A lot of designers are very specific and strict. Any change must go through them, which is totally fine. You know, that helps keep the integrity of the design, but it goes back to the fact that we do not have any standards in our industry. And so it's extremely important to make it clear, if this happens, then what happens? Who's responsible for what? So that there aren't questions when you're in the middle of that stressful situation.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 49:40

And no one's perfect. Not any designer is going to foresee every single possibility. The builders aren't going to be perfect and the homeowners aren't perfect. So I appreciated Rebecca when I worked with you, how responsive you were when we got to Situations where we had, say, a complicated outlet coming out of very unusual tile with an unusual profile that didn't make it easy for us to,

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 50:08

I remember that one.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 50:10

right. We couldn't just put the outlet on the wall because the tile had a very unusual profile. interesting relief. And you worked with me to come up with an idea that we actually had to have manufactured. I really appreciated how responsive you were and how we worked together to come up with a solution that worked really well for this unusual circumstance that none of us had foreseen.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 50:35

to relationships. You know, I'm all for making sure that we are paid for our time. But it's You guys and I, we worked together for almost 20 years. Some of those choices that I made weren't made on the client's behalf. They were made for our relationship to try and make your job go well, make the project go well. So sometimes Technically there is some lost money. In these situations, but you've got to keep an eye on what the long game is. You know, I created these very detailed files for the benefit of myself and for the clients. I didn't want the stress of feeling like I'd missed a detail. I was surprised to find contractors like yourselves appreciated them so much that ultimately my best referral source was my contractors. Not even my clients. They were great, but it's the contractors that really Kept my business going, and that's all because of the things we're talking about right here.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 51:36

It's a great point. Lot of the time these projects start with with a phone call to us. you remodeled my colleague's bathroom. They said you did a great job. Can you come take a look at mine? Yeah, sure. I can do that. Do you have a design? Do you have drawings? Do you have a No, no, we're just kind of the first thing I want to do is, get a design. So then we're recommending designers or architects depending on the situation. So you bet. Yeah. We sent a ton of projects your way. And you sent a ton of projects our way. It was a, it was a great relationship that way.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 52:08

Yeah.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 52:09

You want as a designer to have a successful project for your homeowner and for your builder. If you aren't responsive to your builder or your homeowner, once the project has actually started, whether or not you have contracted to have that level of support in the project, as a builder, if you feel like your designer has left you hanging out to dry, we have lots of people who come to us and need a designer and we would do tons of referrals. If we don't get good support from our designer, that person isn't going to be tops on our list for referrals when we're on the job site having to do the head scratching and figure out this design isn't executable because we've ran into this problem now we have to figure it out on our own. It seems like from a business owner perspective. That's kind of a silly choice, right? You're not playing the long game. As you said, it may be a project that you are unable to photograph because it is no longer something that represents your design vision. Maybe your client isn't going to give you a referral. Your builder isn't going to give you a referral. so yeah. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face when you are already so invested. This client has paid you a substantial amount of money and then the very last interaction with your client is going to be a bad taste in their mouth. That seems like a foolish choice to make.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 53:34

I'm so glad you said it that way too, because when anybody thinks of interior design, they almost always think of the prettiness, right? Oh, the room will be pretty when it's done. It does not matter how pretty that room is. If the experience of getting there was miserable, people will hate that space for ever because of the baggage that was given to them as part of the remodel. So it is, more important to hone your process and hone your documents and support your clients than it is to give them some sort of. wow factor design. Most people don't even need wow factor. They need a reliable way to get from where they are to where they want to be without spending any more time, stress or money than they have to. That's what our job is. And how we execute our job results in whether or not they got the good experience or the bad experience.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 54:32

Well said.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 54:34

So Chris and Lisa, this is your moment is there anything else that you really wish interior designers knew about working with contractors to make everybody's job better?

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 54:46

Dimensions and details are important to builders. And the more details and dimensions that you can provide to your builder, the more successful your project is going to be. Yeah. Documentation. Get it all in there and have it ready before construction starts so that not only it can be built properly, but it can be estimated. properly as well. When the details are loose, it's hard to put numbers on them.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 55:14

Perfect summary well, with that, if anybody's happens to be an interior designer or homeowner in the North Seattle area, I cannot recommend Rain Cap, Chris and Lisa. enough. No. Truly you always value engineered. You are always looking for the way we can accomplish this without spending unnecessary money. You always had a can do attitude, whatever struggle came up, and you always took such good care of client homes. They were tidy. They were locked at night. You cared about the kids. You care about the pets. I'm saying it all past tense because I'm not doing the projects anymore, but you still do all these things. And to me, that is the bar that every contractor should be striving to meet because that's when we create Beautiful symbiotic relationship. So if there are any designers or homeowners in Seattle, yes. Reach out to rain cap. Now you guys are mostly doing what size of projects these days.

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 56:23

There's a lot of variety. We try not to do smaller bathroom type projects but larger scale, nicer bathroom remodels kitchen remodels. We do a lot of basements. For as not glamorous as basements can seem, they are the most transformative spaces that we work on. They go from being big, weird cobwebby spaces and open framing to all of a sudden you have a whole other floor in your home. So we, we like those a lot. We do a lot of smaller and middle scale additions. And now more and more in Seattle, we're doing backyard cottages, daddoos spaces that people can put on Airbnb and make a little money on them. So all of those and everything in between.

rebecca_1_10-30-2024_183932: 57:07

Thank you guys so much for your very valuable time today and talking about what we should be putting into our design files. You guys are a gem in the constellation of contractors

squadcaster-d0j3_1_10-30-2024_103932: 57:20

thank you so much, Rebecca. We miss working with you.

Speaker 2: 57:24

Well, my friends, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Chris and Lisa of Rain Cap Construction and that it gives you some insight into what to include in your design files to be a great partner to your contractors and get the construction results you expect and deserve. If you're curious to see one of the files that we created at Seriously Happy Homes, I am an open book in my one to one coaching calls. You can sign up for an hour with me over at seriouslyhappy. com, and I'll be happy to not only pull back the curtain on our design files, but I can also give you feedback on your files too, so that you know whether or not you're meeting the expectations and standards of a reliable and reputable contractor. And if you just want to be friends, come find me on Instagram at beseriouslyhappy. That's B spelled out, beseriously happy. And let's be friends and celebrate all the things that we're doing together to succeed as entrepreneurs and interior designers. Bye for now.